(An open letter to Freecycle.)
Dear Freecycle,
I love you — in theory. You’re such a great way for a community to share its resources, meet its members, and keep usable things out of the landfill. Your motto, “Changing the world, one gift at a time,” makes me go all mushy inside my secret hippie heart. The greenness, freedom from money, and community spirit are all things I would love to see more of in this culture.
But do you have any idea how much more aggravation you cause me than just driving a couple boxes of stuff down to Goodwill? Because of you, I’ve spent whole days waiting around at home for people to show up. Because of you, I’ve had to deal with people who are flaky, greedy, or just plain unpleasant. And they know where I live. Remember the time that lady strung me along for six hours to pick up a dollhouse? At 8pm, I’d had enough and told her I was giving it to the next person. Her response: a carefully crafted guilt trip about how long her daughter had been wanting a dollhouse and how disappointed she was. I guess I should be grateful she didn’t TP my house.
Screw that. I have enough passive aggressiveness in my life. I don’t need any more. The only reason I continue to offer things on Freecycle is that the pain of dealing with these people fades pretty quickly, so in another couple of months, I’m ready to do it all again. Eventually I may give up on it. I’m starting to think that maybe I just don’t like people enough to change the world one gift at a time.
Want to keep me around, Freecycle? I have a short list of things to do that would drastically cut down on the amount of suckiness involved in freecycling.
- Allow givers to leave takers feedback. Feedback allows givers to make smarter decisions about whom we want to give things to. Punctuality, reliability, politeness, and ability to find an address are all important. I also wouldn’t mind knowing a little about the taker’s recent actions on Freecycle — whether s/he has offered things before on Freecycle or is just a taker/requester. I’d still be willing to offer an item to a newbie, just not someone who has a bad track record.
- Allow takers to leave givers feedback. Accurate descriptions of the item, reliability, and politeness are all good things to know before you show up at someone’s door.
- Get rid of the ‘gifts must be given in person’ rule. Although there are definitely exceptions, a lot of takers are too flaky to stick to a reasonable pick up time . In defiance of the rules (and this is big for me, as a stickler), I’ve started putting things outside my door for pick up within a certain window. The takers seem to be fine with that, and nothing has ever gone astray.
- Keep an online inventory of still available items for at least a two week period. It would cut down on the email clutter and provide givers more opportunity to get rid of things. And if you’re looking for something specific, digging through a stack of archived emails isn’t too fun, either.
- Screen out the clearly greedy and unrealistic requests. Working laptops, iPhones, jewelry kilns? I really don’t think so. These emails clutter up the stream and frankly irritate me. Nice try, people.
Posted by EcoCatLady on 02/06/2012 at 11:45
Oh… what a fantastic and constructive post. I fear my own personal FreeCycle rants have not been quite so… um… generous.
First of all, I can’t believe your chapter has a “gifts must be given in person” rule. Trust me, that alone would be enough to stop me from EVER FreeCycling again. Here, just about every transaction post is accompanied by the “easy porch pickup” tag line.
But people are still assholes. I’ve also observed an inverse relationship between the speed with which someone responds to the post and their likelihood to actually show up. My new rule is that if someone pounces on it immediately, they’re not even in the running.
Actually, I think you suggestions for a feedback system similar to eBay’s are absolutely FABULOUS. But I’m starting to think that FreeCycle is more of an idea than an organization, and developing and maintaining a system like that would take staff and money. But that might not be such a bad thing. I mean if people had to pay a small membership fee or something like that, and actually be at least somewhat accountable for their behavior, it might weed out a lot of the idiots who seem to consistently ruin such a wonderful idea.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/06/2012 at 12:00
Hi Cat,
Man, I must have missed your rants about Freecycle. I’m sure they were worth reading! Freecycle is one of those things where the idea is so much better than the actual execution because (as you pointed out) a large percentage of people are in fact jerks. I also wonder sometimes if I’m contributing to someone else’s hoarding problem by offering free stuff that, in all honesty, no one genuinely needs.
I don’t really want Freecycle to become a paid thing, but I do want people to be more responsible and decent, and am just not sure that’s going to happen with the current setup.
Posted by EcoCatLady on 02/06/2012 at 14:22
Well, I fear it was pretty much an all purpose rant, but here it is for your reading pleasure… http://ecocatlady.blogspot.com/2011/05/caution-grumpy-when-tired-beware-this.html
Posted by smallftprints on 02/06/2012 at 13:46
I was talking to the people who monitor my area’s freecycle and found out that some people have a program which automatically responds to each offer stating that they would love to have it. I never noticed it before but they do tend to be generic and don’t really talk about the specific item. Evidently they do this so that they are first in line and when someone responds to them, they can pick and choose what they actually want … and either answer back or not. So, our host recommends that people not just take the first email that comes in but instead reads through several and gives it to the person who feels right. Seems there’s always a gimmick!
Posted by EcoCatLady on 02/06/2012 at 14:15
Good GAWD! Who knew “gaming the system” extended to FreeCycle?!? But it totally makes sense now. I could never figure out why these people would jump up and say they wanted the thing but then never respond to my emails. Shaking my head in disgust…
Posted by Jennifer on 02/06/2012 at 14:35
Yikes! What a crappy, selfish, inconsiderate thing to do. I try not to be a cynic, but sometimes it’s kind of difficult…
Posted by smallftprints on 02/06/2012 at 11:46
Here! Here! And wow do I second that emotion! This weekend, we cleaned things out and gave away a lot of stuff … not just any stuff but totally usable, in good condition and in some cases expensive stuff. Two people came immediately for their stuff and were grateful … but another strung us along for 24 hours only to call and offer more excuses. It’s amazing how many people are in the hospital when it comes to picking up a freecycle item. I won’t give up on it but I would love to see them incorporate your ideas. It would make the whole system so much more effective. Thanks for airing exactly what I’m feeling today! BTW … the last person who had all kinds of excuses missed out on a whole bag (15 lbs) of Science Diet cat food. I got up my non-sociable nerve and walked to a neighbors apartment who was more than happy to get the food. And what became of the freecycler with the excuses? She was shocked that we’d give it away and not wait until 10 pm tonight for her to show up … and yep … she laid on the guilt trip.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/06/2012 at 12:10
Hi SmallFootprints,
That is so ridiculous. I guess it must not be a unique experience to have a taker turn out to be awful. Freecycle is one of those things that works only as well as its participants, and there are definitely enough bad apples to sour the people who use it responsibly. Good for you for not waiting around for the flake. She missed her chance!
Posted by EcoCatLady on 02/06/2012 at 14:12
“It’s amazing how many people are in the hospital when it comes to picking up a freecycle item.” OMG – You nearly made me spit my tea on the computer monitor. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that one!
Posted by Good Girl Gone Green on 02/06/2012 at 21:50
I love this post! It was so true and funny! I am not a fan of random people cowing my address! I prefer t to just go to goodwill and drop off the things I don’t need anymore. Less headache, in my opinion
Posted by Jennifer on 02/07/2012 at 08:44
Hey Good Girl Gone Green,
I think Freecycle might just be one of those things that works better as an idea than in real life. Some people arrange to meet in a public place, but with the amount of flakiness involved, I’d rather leave things outside my door. I’m actually feeling even more discouraged knowing that people game the system. What is wrong with them?
Posted by Andrea on 02/07/2012 at 12:48
Hear, hear!
I used Freecycle for about a year, then quit and never looked back. Now I split up my stuff into a donations pile and a swapping pile. Sure, it’s harder to find a match when the person taking something off your hands has to have something you want in return, but it works every time because both sides are equally invested, so in my experience I’ve never been stood up or kept waiting. And there’s been no guilt!
Posted by Jennifer on 02/07/2012 at 15:01
Hi Andrea,
How do you find people to swap with? Do you just swap with your friends, or do you post things to swap on a forum or on Craigslist? I don’t mind just getting rid of stuff (go away! get out of my house!), but the behavior of many people on Freecycle is off putting. I do want to say that I’ve encountered some really lovely people as well, who are prompt, polite, and even write a thank you email after receiving the item…it’s just the bad people who stick out in my mind.
Posted by Andrea on 02/08/2012 at 06:50
I use Swapsity, which has great features like a rating system (using points and/or descriptive feedback) for both parties as well as an internal e-mail service. Swappers decide how the trade will be made (some people meet in person, others ship their items, and porch pick-ups are okay, too). Surely there’s a similar website for the US?
In the past I’ve also used Craigslist’s “free stuff” section, not to swap, just to get items out of the house.
Posted by Kristina (The Greening of Westford) on 02/07/2012 at 16:19
So sorry that you’ve such a bad experience. I have had my share of flaky people, someone’s friend died in a car accident and she couldn’t come pick up the item, another woman had to wait until the next week for “gas money”. Luckily, none of these really inconvenienced me. I ALWAYS leave the items out and never meet the person – I don’t really want to. I only use Freecycle for items in good condition that I can’t donate and have been pleased to pass on the items for someone else to use. Your ideas would be great! Maybe you could start another yahoo group for people to post comments on the FreeCycle users in your area?
Now Craig’s List is another story!
Posted by Jennifer on 02/07/2012 at 17:50
Hi Kristina,
I actually haven’t had truly horrific Freecycle experiences, although I do have a friend who was threatened quite graphically and stalked over email. Yikes! (Yet another suggestion: an ability to contact each other without revealing our email address.) I like the idea of being able to leave feedback for people, but I don’t think another YahooGroup would be the right place to do it — too many people, too many emails, no quick at-a-glance review of a user’s profile. It would call for a platform more like eBay’s user profiles or Amazon product reviews.
I’ve had pretty better luck when responding to requests for stuff (as opposed to having people ask for an item I’ve listed). I guess they have a more specific need for something in order to ask for it.
Posted by EcoGrrl on 02/07/2012 at 20:12
How about just posting your free stuff on the “FREE” section of Craigslist? No rules, just say what you got, wait for an email to come in from someone interested, and then leave it in your driveway or on your front porch for them to pick up. Boom, done.
(I do this a lot and usually get responses within minutes by the way and have gotten rid of everything from bags of styrofoam peanuts to half-full cans of paint to scrap wood to an old garbage can that lost its lid. It’s pretty awesome. FreeCycle makes it too hard.)
Posted by Jennifer on 02/07/2012 at 21:59
Hi EcoGrrl,
Good suggestion — especially from the giving end. I’ll give it a shot next time!
Posted by trash nothing! (@trashnothing) on 02/08/2012 at 08:32
Hi Jennifer,
I’ve actually been working to make existing freecycle groups suck less for the last couple of years. I’ve built a new interface that works with the existing groups at trashnothing.com. It completely eliminates the email clutter and keeps track of which items are still available (along with a lot of other improvements).
Just last week, I launched a new feature where you can see the recent posting activity of other members so you can get a sense for their reputation. I’m hoping to add more comprehensive reputations with feedback in the near future.
I’d love to hear your feedback if you get a chance to try it out.
http://trashnothing.com/
Cheers,
Andrew Trusty
trash nothing! Founder
Posted by Jennifer on 02/08/2012 at 08:42
Hi Andrew,
Wow! I wish I’d heard of this earlier. I just checked out Trash Nothing and it does look like it addresses all of my major gripes about Freecycle. Unfortunately, my Freecycle chapter isn’t on there yet, but there’s another group in the same city. I will give it a go next time I have a pile of things ready to give away.
Thank you for all the work you’ve put into making Freecycle suck less.
Posted by trash nothing! (@trashnothing) on 02/08/2012 at 11:18
Ya, we don’t have every group in the world listed yet but you can add groups that you are already a member of if you follow the forwarding instructions at the link below:
https://trashnothing.com/forwarding_instructions
Posted by Mary on 02/08/2012 at 08:59
The moderators in my area are pretty strict and on the ball, but its a smaller area for them to cover than a lot of them and Im sure it would take a lot of manpower to keep up with all of it. It is free, after all.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/08/2012 at 09:08
Hi Mary,
I realize that, and the mods in my group do a decent job considering they’re probably busy and don’t get paid for the work they do. I think what I really want is not for there to be more rules or moderation, but for more humans to behave like fundamentally decent and responsible beings. Hmm…
Posted by Stephanie on 02/08/2012 at 13:23
We post this fake letter on our group now and then to remind people that they can improve their own Freecycle experience. PS I’ve never heard of a group requiring gift giving in person. I would never be able to use Freecycle if that was a rule!
Dear Fabby:
I made my first four offers today on Freecycle(TM). Some of what I experienced after that:
– Folks responding immediately to my OFFER just to be the FIRST, but clearly not thinking about whether they really wanted what I was offering – or even if it was possible for them to pick it up.
– E-mails asking me questions that were already clearly answered in my OFFER posting.
– More than one person e-mailed with no mention of which item they were interested in – in either the subject or the body of their message.
– Another person actually asked me to ship the item to him…out-of-state.
– At least one e-mail lecturing (actually, berating) me about how I “advertised” and “sold” my items. (Honestly, I did my best and I think my posts show effort. And this being Freecycle, I didn’t think I was advertising or selling anything.)
– And LOTS of people for whom the words “please” or “thank you” don’t seem to be part of their language. I don’t expect someone to bow and scrape before me. But I didn’t really expect to be given lots of orders and demands in response to my OFFER, either.
I started today feeling good that I was doing something positive. I ended the day in not the best of moods.
Signed, Cheerless in Seattle
Dear Cheerless:
My, my, you try to do something good for the other people and for the planet, and look what happens. Not only are some people ungrateful, but they’re downright rude in the bargain. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could wave a magic wand and make all the thoughtless, impolite, greedy, and generally clueless people go away, and just give your stuff to the few who seem to remember that you’re offering a gift that they should show just a teensy bit of gratitude for?
Well, you know what? You can.
You have an extraordinary power – as does everyone else here, though they all seem to keep forgetting about it. And that power is this: when you make an OFFER, *you* get to choose who gets it. You and only you. You *don’t* have to pick the person who’s first to reply after your offer’s posted, or the one who’s the most insistent, or the one who only posts WANTEDs and never OFFERs anything themselves. You can wait and see all of what comes into your Inbox for as long as you want, and then *you* get to choose one of them to take your OFFER. And you don’t need to justify your decision to anyone but yourself.
Fabby herself usually lets a day or so pass after her OFFER goes out to see who answers, and then picks the person who asked for the thing the most politely. Or sometimes it’s the one who had the best story about why they needed it, or who turns out to be located in the same neighborhood as she is, or who had OFFERed something recently! Very often this *isn’t* the first person who replies, which is a nice benefit; not everyone can be hovering at their computers 24×7, and Fabby thinks even people with dial-up Internet connections, who check their e-mail only once a day (gasp!) or participate via the sort-of-Daily Digest, should have an equal shot at getting stuff generously offered here. There’s no rule that people with the gigabit broadband cable feeds and RedBull-enhanced fingers should get first dibs on everything, you know.
And so what can you do about the others who respond, especially the ones you encountered who seem to have gotten report cards saying “doesn’t play well with
others”? Well, it gets even better. You can simply delete each and every email you get from them without replying. Bzzzt, thank you for playing, but no cookware set for this guest today, Johnny. The beauty of it is that once you post a TAKEN notice, you’re done – it serves as a blanket answer to *everyone*
else who e-mailed you, so you don’t have to do anything more.
Perhaps after a few dozen times of the same thing happening and being told “it’s taken” even though they know they responded 20 milliseconds after the posting hit their mailbox, some people *might* start to think a little bit…maybe there’s more to being part of this community than how fast they can click on the “send” button? That maybe whatever it was their mother told them – you know, about being polite and courteous to others and thankful for gifts they get – might actually be good to remember?
No, you’re right, probably not. But it’s nice to imagine, isn’t it?
Yours in reuse,
FreeycleAbby (aka “Fabby”)
(PS: By the way, you don’t have to respond to the *nice* people who email you but didn’t get your item, either – the TAKEN does the work for you there as well. Of course, you’re welcome to send them an e-mail with your regrets if you want to, or save their addresses just in case the first taker doesn’t make it. Again, you’re the OFFERer, so it’s all your choice.)
[This letter was borrowed with permission from a Freecycle mod in Seattle, WA. Your local moderators would like to add that if you are chosen to receive an item, either in response to a WANTED message you received, or as the result of being chosen for an item being OFFERed by someone else, please consider sending them a short, polite THANK YOU email after you have picked the item up. No-one gives away items on Freecycle to obtain attention or glory, but it is nice to know that your generosity is appreciated, and a little politeness goes a long way. Maybe that member will offer another item you want and will remember how polite you were the first time around. On the other hand, if you weren't polite, they're likely to remember that, also. . . ]
Posted by Jennifer on 02/08/2012 at 14:32
Hi Stephanie,
I agree with your point that there are things we can do to make our Freecycle experiences better, but only to a certain extent. My main objection to many of the recommendations is that they take time — a LOT of time. Time to read through lots of emails every day to get a feel for who offers stuff on Freecycle, time to go through a lot of emails requesting things that you’ve offered, time to choose the best possible recipient. Without any sort of rating system, it’s hard to make that choice. And even when I go from the best available information I have, I’ve managed to pick people who turned out to be flaky, needy, or rude and wasted a lot of my time. Putting all the responsibility for a good Freecycle experience on the giver seems a bit unfair when the infrastructure to make good decisions isn’t there. I think it’s what keeps a lot of people from doing (or staying with) Freecycle, and it seems quite fixable.
Posted by Stephanie on 02/08/2012 at 18:52
It doesn’t take much time to search the Yahoo Group for a certain member and see if they’ve offered stuff. I don’t that through email, I just view the posts online at the group. I don’t get the group posts, I only get the responses to my offers or wanteds to my own email. It’s easier to just scan the messages at the website and pick and choose which ones to read.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/09/2012 at 08:48
Hi Stephanie,
You may be right that it doesn’t take *that* much time or effort, but it’s still more than I’m willing to put into getting rid of things. The easier and more painless Freecycle is for me to use, the more I’ll use it. And vice versa.
Posted by Stephanie on 02/08/2012 at 13:24
PS the “online inventory” is easy enough to do on a Yahoo Group. You can easily search the group to see if an item has a taken message posted for it!!
Posted by Green Bean on 02/08/2012 at 17:55
Love this! I never give anything in person. It goes out front and is picked up at a proposed time.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/09/2012 at 08:51
Hey Green Bean,
I think I should have started breaking the rules much sooner!
I’m too much of an introvert to enjoy in-person pick-ups, especially if I’m already annoyed at having been kept waiting.
Posted by Lori Popkewitz Alper on 02/10/2012 at 19:44
I feel your pain! I’ve waited for so many people to show and they never do. Now I never wait. I make it clear where the item will be waiting for them and I make sure I’m not around. It usually works out well. I like all of your Freecycle suggestions.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/12/2012 at 10:08
Hi Lori,
I think that’s the direction frequent freecyclers take. There’s nothing like waiting around for three hours on a Saturday afternoon when you have other stuff to get done. I’ve been finding that two things work for me: 1) leaving things by the door, and then putting them in the Goodwill pile if no one shows up, and 2) answering requests rather than offering stuff. People who ask for things seem much more reliable about coming to pick them up.
Posted by Tim Oey on 02/12/2012 at 22:47
This is also my top suggestion and has worked flawlessly for me for hundreds of freecycles. I just leave the item in a moderately safe location in my yard so who ever I give it to can pick it up any time day or night without me having to hang around. If the first person doesn’t pick it up in the allotted time, then I move the item and notify the next in line.
Posted by Martha on 02/11/2012 at 17:12
I’ve always been too much of a chicken to give out my address to anyone I don’t personally know. I donate to school and church sales, and local thrift shops trying to find the ones that are for a good cause. Sometimes I just leave items at the curb with a free sign on them in hopes that people who can really use the item will be the ones who happen by.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/12/2012 at 10:10
Hi Martha,
That’s a reasonable concern. I’m not too alarmed because I live in a condo complex with people around me at all times. If I do manage to move somewhere more rural, as I would like to, I think I will become more cautious. I’m sure donating things to good causes helps your community just as much.
Posted by Tim Oey on 02/12/2012 at 22:44
Luckily since freecycling is free (thanks to FreecycleSunnyvale) there are many services which offer freecycle services. For details see http://freecycleforever.org There are also many tips there to make your freecycling experience more enjoyable and avoid many of the pitfalls documented in this blog. Enjoy!
Posted by Jennifer on 02/13/2012 at 09:01
Hi Tim,
I appreciate the tips, but I’m going to have to insist that Freecycle should be easy to use *without* having to read a lot of tips or get up to speed. I should be able to post something, make a quick, good decision about whom to give it to, and get rid of the object with a minimum of fuss, drama, and annoyance. If freecycling takes considerably more effort than hauling stuff down to Goodwill, it’s just not going to happen for me. Call me lazy if you like, but I think there are a whole lot of people who would agree with me. And since a few relatively easy fixes would make it more of a self-regulating system that screens out the bad apples, why not apply them?
Posted by Sandra Pawula on 02/16/2012 at 23:31
I’ve never used Freecyle, but I haven’t had stuff to give away for years. There are plenty of people who need things where i live, so I probably don’t “need” freecycle.
Posted by Escon Enterprises on 02/19/2012 at 23:43
I guess you really got upset. Some one once told me that when you do something out of a good heart, be humble about it. You don’t need to let the whole world or the specific person know that you are helping them. That’s why in I agree with your third suggestion: Get rid of the ‘gifts must be given in person’ rule. I suggest that a drop off and pick up point area should be established by FreeCycle.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/20/2012 at 12:50
Hi Escon Enterprises,
I’m not actually pissed off so much as frustrated by the way people on Freecycle take advantage of generosity by being flaky, greedy, or rude. Nor am I an altruist. I’m willing to do someone a good turn, but only if it doesn’t seriously inconvenience me, and being guilt-tripped, stood up, or harangued is simply not worth it. Since it doesn’t seem like it would take a whole lot of changes to weed out the really annoying people, I think proposing these changes is more effective than encouraging people trying to do a good thing to be more humble and accepting of other people’s poor behavior. Just my two cents.
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